Posts by My Struggle

18

ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE, ADVERTISE! ...watchtowercomments.com

by V in

please don your sandwich board and join me.

any help promoting the november 5th release of www.watchtowercomments.com is appreciated.. gratuitous placement on discussion boards and blogs recommended.. picture link: http://www.watchtowercomments.com/teaser.jpg.

video teaser link: double-click on the video screen below .

My Struggle

Will do my part.

25

When you were a JW

by searcher in

what was it that made you believe that you were so important that you deserved to live forever?

My Struggle

I did not think that I deserved to and thought that I shouldn't.....that's what happens in a religion that screws with Grace.

18

When did apostasy set in?

by My Struggle in

i know that dubs think that apostasy set in quickly in the early church, but i am not certain how early the think that it set in.

do they think that it was in the apostolic fathers, directly after them, legalization of christianity, etc.

?

My Struggle

(2 Timothy 2:16-18) 16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some .

(1 Timothy 1:18-20) . . .This mandate I commit to you, child, Timothy, in accord with the predictions that led directly on to you, that by these you may go on waging the fine warfare; 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith. 20 Hymenaeus and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme .
(2
Timothy 4:14-15) . . .Alexander the coppersmith did me many injuries—Jehovah will repay him according to his deeds— 15 and you too be on guard against him, for he resisted our words to an excessive degree.
Evidently there were Christians in the first century that were teaching things perceived as contrary to basic Christian teachings.
Blondie

Yes I am very aware of the actual church history in regards to actual apostasy being present, the proto Gnostic, ebionites, nazoreans, all types of Jews from Hellenized beliefs to orthodox, etc. My question is more toward the society opinion of when apostasy set in. When I say "set in" I mean that the church was completely apostatised. As one person said they must commit to the apostasy being early if they were able to completely remove YHWH from all MSS. However, I have never seen anything in any of their publications that puts in kind of certainty as to when the apostasy fully took hold.

18

When did apostasy set in?

by My Struggle in

i know that dubs think that apostasy set in quickly in the early church, but i am not certain how early the think that it set in.

do they think that it was in the apostolic fathers, directly after them, legalization of christianity, etc.

?

My Struggle

I know that Dubs think that apostasy set in quickly in the early church, but I am not certain how early the think that it set in. Do they think that it was in the apostolic fathers, directly after them, legalization of Christianity, etc.?

12

How was marriage viewed in your congregation?

by Alexia in

i ask because i see a lot of posts here about how the borg discourages marriage.

my experience is quite the opposite.

young people were pressured into getting married the minute someone from the cong.

My Struggle

In the southern united states it is most definitely a push to get married. It is very common for pre-twenties to be married.

9

What are some of the biggest changes in the org?

by My Struggle in

there have been some big changes over the past few years.

what do you think are the most important?.

personally... 1.no bookstudy.

My Struggle

There have been some big changes over the past few years. What do you think are the most important?

Personally..

1.No Bookstudy

2.Generation Doctrine changed

3.A study edition for the watchtower

4.A tightening up on the college rule

20

Watchtower Comments THE MEMORIAL Video

by V in

check it out!.

watchtower comments exposes the memorial.

My Struggle

The apostle Paul said that those not eating or drinking should simply stay home .

Where?

26

was anyone ever told they would have been stoned to death by an elder?

by looloo in

i was when i had an affair , but this elders pioneer daughter told me she understood why i had done it , i was feeling dreadfull and so guilt ridden but he said i should through myself at my hubs feet and beg forgiveness from him and had i lived 2000 years ago i would have been stoned to death !

the strange thing is a few years later this elder told me he had feelings for me , but he was married and old enough to be my dad , although i liked him as a person by then and had forgotten what he had said to me about being stoned to death, i was a bit annoyed that he told me not to tell anyone ,and yet was telling other people to tattle tale on others , i know he felt really bad about his feelings though and i did feel sorry for him , but asked him not to visit anymore as it made me feel guilty towards his wife , maybe it was gods way of getting him to see things from a wrong doers point of view ,as he had a reputation for being very harsh on wrong doers (like myself) maybe he makes a better elder nowadays after that insight , or maybe they think i was sent by satan to seduce a pioneer and an elder !

My Struggle

Yes.....

43

Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses

by JH in

should one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.

My Struggle

Veradico,

Stafford's view is one that is better than the one that presented by the WBTS, but it is still flawed. I have yet to see him give a satisfactory answer in regards to the argument that was presented in my last post. These points were brought out in the White debate and his answers were amusing to say the least. If you the audio of the debate this can be found in White's cross-examination of Stafford.

Also, I for one could never see myself accepting a henotheist theology as Stafford presents. To me a triune God is more acceptable.

43

Take out your bibles and tell me......with the proper verses

by JH in

should one adore and pray to jehovah or to jesus?.

My Struggle

Like 007 said proskyneo can carry the meaning of showing obedience and lowering oneself, ex.2 Samuel 14:4 and 1 Samuel 25:23,24 respectively. Still it is used in the sense that denotes true and full religious worship, which is a proskyneo that is unique and acceptable only to God.

There are times when God's representatives rejected proskyneo.

Acts 10:24,25 "When Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter raised him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am just a man."
Revelation19:9,10 "Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb '" And he said to me, "These are true words of God." Then I fell at his feet[the angel that was delivering the message to John] to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." "
Revelation 22:8,9 same as above

If it is ok to accept proskyneo as long as you are a representative of God, why would they reject proskyneo. It only stands to reason that there is a way that proskyneo can be given, even if directed to one of God's representatives, that is not acceptable. This is to say that proskyneo can and does carry a meaning of full and true worship that only God can receive.

An example of proskyneo that could only be acceptable if directed to God, which is clearly different than proskyneo in the Samuel accounts, is found in Revelation 4:9-11. It says, "And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." The main difference is that they gave God glory, honor, power, and praise for His creation; these things in proskyneo are unique to God.

I doubt that anyone would not agree that to proskyneo anything other than God in the manner found in Rev. 4:9-11 would be idolatrous.

If they do not agree and we can proskyneo something other than God in the manner of Rev. chapter 4, how can we tell what is unique about proskyneo directed to God. If we could proskyneo something other than God in the manner of Rev. chapter 4, there would be nothing in proskyneo that could not be given to representatives of God. If this were true no representative would have grounds for rejecting any type of proskyneo. However there was rejection of proskyneo by God's representatives in Acts and Revelation, as cited earlier.

This same unique manner proskyneo found in Rev. 4:9-11 is found in the next chapter of revelation verses 6-14; though this time Jesus as the Lamb is the object of this proskyneo . It says, "And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the book out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the book, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth." Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen " And the elders fell down and worshiped."

Notice what the proskyneo toward God involves in chapter 5, "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." Then to the Lamb in chapter 4, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." "

The same things that are unique proskyneo to God are attributed to Jesus, namely glory, honor, and power. Also, these things are not attributed thought the Lamb to God, rather they are attributed directly to both the Lamb and God.